Boxed In: Most iconic MLB stadium: Fenway vs. Wrigley
One has the Green Monster and "Sweet Caroline." The other has an ivy wall and the curse of the pet goat who was kicked out of a World Series game. Major League Baseball's two most iconic stadiums are Fenway Park in Boston and Wrigley Field in Chicago. On today's Boxed In, resident Chicagoan Andy Behrens faces off with knower of all things baseball Mike Oz as they debate which is the more iconic ballpark. The honorable and fair Dan Wetzel, who admittedly grew up in Boston and worked at Fenway as a plucky youth, renders the final verdict on baseball's two most hallowed landmarks. Watch or listen to Boxed In every Monday, Wednesday and Friday on Yahoo Sports, YouTube or on your podcast provider of choice. Subscribe: https://apple.co/39UC09o https://spoti.fi/3aVpV56
Video Transcript
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DAN WETZEL: Welcome to "Boxed In," the quarantine argument show of Yahoo Sports. I am Dan Wetzel, normally the national columnist here. But today, I'm the judge. I'm the jury. I'm the executioner wasp of a debate about which Major League Baseball park is more iconic, Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. Andy Behrens is going to argue for Wrigley. Mike Oz will defend Fenway. This is a doozy.
Brief admission. Got to bring your biases to the table. I did grow up in Boston, and I did briefly work at Fenway Park for the Harry M. Stevens company. I have been to Wrigley, I just never went inside. Every Cub game I ever attended, I stayed in the bars outside the thing. So this is your judge. Deal with it, gentleman. Quick opening statements. Which park is more iconic? That is the question. We'll start with you, Andy.
ANDY BEHRENS: It's funny that you never made it into Wrigley, because it's like a bug zapper for drunks. It draws them in. But you're right, the local scene is also pretty attractive. One of the best things about Wrigley is that, if you're there for a baseball game, it means that you're in Chicago in spring, summer, or fall, which is about the best place-- I don't know. I don't know why you'd rather be anywhere else in the world, honestly.
I feel like the marquee at Wrigley Field, at Clark and Addison, is probably the most photographed ballpark feature maybe ever-- possibly ever. You've got iconic, distinctive features within the ballpark. You got a hand-operated scoreboard that I believe has been hand-operated by, like, multiple generations of the same family. Nobody's ever hit it with a batted ball. I think Clemente came close.
You've got ivy-covered walls. You've got great fan traditions. You can watch the game from rooftops across the street. One ball, in fact, has been hit onto a rooftop across the street. It was done by Glenallen Hill. It's just a great environment. You've got fan traditions, like throwing back home runs. You've got right field chanting "left field sucks" and left field chanting "right field sucks." It is a great, great ballpark experience.
DAN WETZEL: All right. Well, I'm a cheap drunk. That's the problem. And it costs more-- so I do like the point about the same family handling the scoreboard. Nothing like nepotism in Chicago employment. That's a new concept for that city. Mr. Oz, what do you got for Boston?
MIKE OZ: I will say this, first off. Andy, obviously, is from Chicago. You're from Boston. I'm from California. So you know, I bring no local bias into this. I say this as someone who has seen the Red Sox win the World Series at Fenway Park. I've seen the Cubs play the World Series in 2016 and almost let it slip away before they went back to Cleveland.
In my mind, there is no doubt that Fenway is a better place to watch a baseball game. And I come to this argument with this [INAUDIBLE]. There is a difference in my mind between a classic car and an old clunker that you love, because it's been sitting in your driveway for 40 years. And to me, that's the difference between Fenway and Wrigley.
Like, you can say the ivy is sort of quirky and fun. But in what world is it competitive sports [INAUDIBLE] professional level for a baseball to get lost in the ivy? Like, it looks like you just didn't have somebody take care of your lawn, man. It's a better stadium. It's a better experience to go there.
As much as, like, the area around Wrigley Field is great, Yawkey Way outside of Boston is fantastic. And I count that as being sort of part of the-- that's actually part of the stadium, right? The Chicago experience, I share with you, Judge Wetz. Like, I enjoy some of the bars and restaurants around there. But if we're talking about actually inside the stadium, inside that area, that's Fenway all the way.
ANDY BEHRENS: Well, I got news for you. The Ricketts family actually owns, now, just about everything outside of Wrigley Field. So it-- all the money's going to the same place.
DAN WETZEL: Eh, that's too bad. I think bad yard work-- I think the Wrigley has inspired poor yard work as an excuse. You can sit there and say, trying to regrow Wrigley Field here, not-- I'm not just deciding not to weed. All right. What is the most iconic moment in each stadium, OK? We will start with you. We'll snake draft this. Mr. Oz-- Counselor Oz.
MIKE OZ: I'm actually going to start by saying that Andy's most memorable moment is Steve Bartman grabbing a ball from--
DAN WETZEL: Mm-hmm.
MIKE OZ: --from Moisés Alou. So anything I say is better than that. Carlton Fisk, game 6, 1975 World Series. We've seen it. It lives in our brains-- you know, Carlton Fisk waving the ball into fair territory. It's magic, man. And Fenway's full of magic.
And if you don't like that, if you're too young for that, there's the bullpen cop in the 2013 World Series, where, you know, the Tigers guy falls over the outfield wall, 'cause they had that little small wall out in Fenway, and holds up his hands. You know, a home run. Everyone went wild, and that guy was a celebrity for the following year. You know, there's the red seat out in Fenway. It's full of magic. So now, Andy, yes, please tell me about Steve Bartman.
ANDY BEHRENS: Well, I'll actually say that, like, if you're giving even the five-minute history of baseball, you can't do it without Babe Ruth's called shot, right? Which is the 1932 World Series. Did he call it? Did he not call it? It was in Wrigley Field-- totally magical moment. I feel like that's probably the most iconic moment.
Certainly, the most iconic moment in recent history-- you nailed it-- is the Bartman fiasco-- debacle-- I don't know what I should call it. Terrible moment. It's the eighth inning, Luis Castillo at the plate, maybe. Just a-- we all know what happened. Just terrible. And it spawned a million terrible barroom arguments as well.
Like, among Cub fans, good moments that happened in the park-- you can go back to Gabby Hartnett with the Homer in the Gloamin' in 1938 that pretty much turned around the pennant race, the Ryne Sandberg game in which he tied it off Bruce Sutter in the ninth and then tied it again in extra innings off Bruce Sutter. Cubs go on to win, and they're, all the sudden, taken seriously in '84. So a bunch of iconic moments in the park. I feel like the Ruth called shot, though, takes the cake.
DAN WETZEL: OK. All right. These places both known for music. "Sweet Caroline" versus the seventh inning stretch. Who has a better tradition? Andy.
ANDY BEHRENS: Yeah. With all due respect to Neil Diamond's pedophilic anthem, no, it's not that. It is, in fact, the seventh inning stretch at Wrigley Field, popularized by Harry Caray. It's probably best done just, like, when they throw Harry himself-- vintage Harry-- on the scoreboard and just let him go. It's such a great experience.
But there also is a little bit of magic to having a guest conductor in the park do their own version. And you don't really know what you're going to get. You might get a disastrous, high-speed version Mike Ditka style, or you might get something really heartwarming and nice. But that singalong is about the best moment I've ever been a part of.
MIKE OZ: I think the seventh inning stretch singalong is fun. But I also think of it kind of like a-- like a first pitch. You know, you remember the bad ones. So I think you have to kind of ding that a little bit, 'cause when you think of the celebrity, you know, seventh inning stretch singalong, you think of Roseanne. You think of stuff like that. You don't think of, like, who really knocked it out of the park.
That being said, I think "Sweet Caroline" is a fun, communal thing. You know, I've been there. I've watched the Boston people do it. You know, it's not the greatest song in the world. It's nothing like that. But it's a-- you feel like you're part of something that all of these people love to do. They love to come to the ballpark and do it.
Whereas I feel like the seventh inning stretch-- like you said, it's hit or miss. And sometimes it's like you're watching a bad reality show, and sometimes you're like, oh, this is kind of neat. But "Sweet Caroline" is great, because everybody's a part of it.
DAN WETZEL: All right. Nice effort there. "Sweet"-- I think "Sweet Caroline" sucks, but--
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--that's not my final ruling. All right.
MIKE OZ: Yeah, nice effort there-- sort of told me how I did on that argument.
DAN WETZEL: Well, yeah, you had no chance. It had no chance. It's a bunch of pink hats took this thing over. You know, not good. I'd much rather have a drunk Harry Caray on a video screen resinging it. All right. Who's got a better curse?
The ballparks are cursed. Obviously, we've had some success of late with these franchises-- more Boston than Chicago. But they were both known for their curse-- the curse of the Bambino, when the Red Sox gave away Babe Ruth, and the curse of the billy goat, which I'm not even-- they threw a guy and a goat out of the ballpark, which I thought seemed pretty reasonable, because he had a goat inside the ballpark. But you know, whatever.
Who's got a better curse, or more iconi-- I don't know if it's better, worse, iconic-- tell me about the curse. Counselor Oz, what's up with the curse of the Bambino?
MIKE OZ: I like to think of the curses as-- let's think of it like a movie, and this is the thing you have to overcome. So if the protagonist has to overcome the idea that we got rid of Babe Ruth, and we need to come back from that, we need to get over that curse, that seems like a valiant thing to try to do.
If the curse is, we kicked out a guy with a goat, the whole thing is stupid, right? Like the whole-- we didn't win a World Series for all these years-- for 60 something years-- because a guy brought a goat to the stadium and we kicked him out. That just is not even logical. The curse of the Bambino wins by default. Plus, it involves one of the best baseball players of all time. You know, obviously, this-- now, Judge Wetzel, this is where you say, great argument. Yes, good job.
ANDY BEHRENS: The actual story-- the actual details behind the curse of the billy goat are so weird. Like, a guy deciding to bring his pet goat-- was it a pet goat? I don't know-- to the ballpark-- like, not just to the ballpark, but to, like, a series game, to, like, the '45--
MIKE OZ: The World Series game, yeah.
ANDY BEHRENS: --World Series. It's just going to be me-- I've got one ticket. I think I'll bring my goat as well. I've heard versions of it where he has to, like, check the goat outside the park, like it's the bike check or something. He has to tie it up outside, where he fires off a nasty telegram to the Wrigley family complaining about the goat checking.
And then the same guy, the same tavern owner, like, years later, in '69, in '70, when the Cubs were competitive again-- Billy Williams, Ernie Banks, and so on-- Santo-- that guy tries to lift his own curse, can't do it, fails miserably. So the curse kind of got out of control on him for a while until he passed. And finally, the Cubs were able to--
MIKE OZ: And what does it say--
ANDY BEHRENS: --were able to overcome it.
MIKE OZ: --about your city if you believe in that curse? Like, what does that say about you, as a fan base, if you're like, yeah, that's the reason we're not any good? Not because Dusty Baker blew out all of our arms. No, it's because of the goat.
ANDY BEHRENS: It says that you're willing to think outside the box. You're willing to open yourself up to certain mystical elements that may be at play.
DAN WETZEL: Billy Sianis, I think is his name-- Greek guy, opened the Billy Goat Tavern, and had the goat. That's his-- it was like his mascot, the goat. And I don't know. I don't know why you get in trouble for-- I mean, who's going to sit next to the goat? I'm at the World Series. I'm at the World Series. I want to watch the World Series. I want to have a goat next to me. I don't know. And there was one seat. There was only one ticket. I don't think he had a ticket for the goat. He wanted to see-- I don't know how this all worked.
ANDY BEHRENS: Presumably, it was a really low-maintenance goat, though. So didn't require a lot of care.
DAN WETZEL: OK. So this is obviously a tough one. So these are both great parks-- probably the two best places to go in Major League Baseball. I'm going to have a hard decision. So give me a closing argument on what I should do here. We'll start with you, Andy.
ANDY BEHRENS: Again, like, I got nothing bad to say about Fenway. I've had some of the best sports days of my life, I think, at Fenway Park. So really big fan of it. Nothing bad to say. Wrigley is my home park. It is the most amazing vibe in sports. Again, I think the seventh inning stretch is just a wonderful tradition there. The way they keep Harry alive there is pretty fantastic. The look of the park, smell of the park-- everything about it. Just love it.
DAN WETZEL: Mr. Oz.
MIKE OZ: I completely appreciate that Andy, as a Chicago person, loves Wrigley Field. Like, sure. As someone who, again, has no allegiance to either of these cities, either of these teams, I went to both of them for the first time in my life in the last, you know, 10 years or so. And I walked away saying that Fenway is the better place to enjoy a World Series game-- any game, for that matter-- than Wrigley.
Like, Fenway is-- to me, it seems like a temple of baseball. Wrigley feels like a place where drunk people gather, and drink beer, and-- you know, to get rid of their sorrows for losing for all these years. And you know, like, fine. Great. Like, enjoy your beer in Chicago. But it felt like, again, a rundown car that you just have to love versus, like, a classic.
ANDY BEHRENS: I got to say--
DAN WETZEL: All right.
ANDY BEHRENS: --until he hit the rundown car part, I was feeling that. I was willing to let--
DAN WETZEL: Right.
ANDY BEHRENS: --Oz's summation stand.
DAN WETZEL: This has not been contentious enough. That is the problem with this debate. I usually like my--
MIKE OZ: Andy's too nice. He doesn't--
DAN WETZEL: It was a--
MIKE OZ: I tried to go after him a little bit. He won't do it.
DAN WETZEL: I noticed that. I noticed that.
MIKE OZ: Too nice of a guy.
DAN WETZEL: All right. So you know, part of me wants to rule for-- you know, I'll say the strong part of the Wrigley Field argument is actually the billy goat, because it includes the Billy Goat Tavern, which is not in Wrigley Field, but is downtown. And when I lived in Chicago, worked at "Chicago Tribune," I used to go to the Billy Goat Tavern all the time. Tremendous hamburgers. Billy Goat draft on tap, which I think is just Natural Light that they claim otherwise-- Mike Royko columns on the wall.
MIKE OZ: Objection, Your Honor. You have a clear bias to Natty Light and--
DAN WETZEL: A Natty Light, Busch Light, Old Style-- whatever you want to give me, Chicago. Old-- Chicago loves its Old Style, too. The Billy Goat draft, and then they have Billy Goat dark. That's, like, their answer to the IPAs of the world. Great place. However-- however, the one thing that sets Fenway Park apart is The Monster-- Green Monster. Changes everything. It makes it a unique ballpark in how you have to play.
Pesky Pole down on right field, the triangle in center. It is-- you would never design this thing. You put the seats up on the Monster seats-- the whole thing. It is the most iconic ballpark because of the way you have to play in there is different than everywhere else.
Love Wrigley Field, if I ever actually go inside it. Love Chicago. But Fenway Park is unique, because-- it's iconic, because it's-- you know you are playing a game there. You can play baseball at Wrigley any other place. So I am ruling in favor of Fenway Park. Congratulations, Counselor Oz.
ANDY BEHRENS: [SIGHS]
MIKE OZ: I feel bad beating Andy, just 'cause he's so nice, and he genuinely loves Wrigley Field so much.
DAN WETZEL: And let me just--
ANDY BEHRENS: This is--
DAN WETZEL: --say this, too. This may or--
ANDY BEHRENS: This is, like, a civic loss. Yeah. This is hard.
DAN WETZEL: This may or may not have something to do with Andy beating me in a previous episode where we discussed whether Norman Dale-- Coach Norman Dale-- was a good person or not. I lost, and I may or may not still be a little grumpy about that. So--
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ANDY BEHRENS: The personal grievances that come up in "Boxed In" are just unbelievable.
DAN WETZEL: [LAUGHS] That's this week's edition-- or, this-- today's edition of "Boxed In." I wish I could go attend a baseball game at either place right now, or even the local minor league park, or anything else. So appreciate everyone listening. Keep subscribing. Leave us nice reviews and share on social media.
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