‘Being the Ricardos’ Star Javier Bardem and Lucie Arnaz Talk Desi Arnaz’s Legacy

Aaron Sorkin’s Being the Ricardos tells the story of one week in the life of comedy icons Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, as they fight to keep their show from being taken off the air while grappling with potential infidelity. It’s very much a portrait of the real-life people behind the beloved sitcom characters, Lucy and Ricky Ricardo, and the unseen struggles they endured to bring their celebrated slapstick series to life. The film stars Javier Bardem as Arnaz and Nicole Kidman as Ball, and is executive produced by its subjects’ real-life children: Lucie Arnaz and Desi Arnaz Jr.

As reported in The Hollywood Reporter’s Dec. 15 cover story, the Amazon film has been years in the making — producer Todd Black had been working on getting a movie made for decades before, in 2015, he was able to secure the approval of the Arnaz children. From there, a writer, director and actors had to be determined. They nailed down Sorkin first, then secured Kidman. But the issue of Desi remained a complicated one — several Latin American actors were offered the role but were unable to accept — until, at last, Bardem, who’d been keenly pursuing the opportunity after researching Arnaz on his own, booked the part.

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Lucie Arnaz was invited by Kidman to visit the set for a couple of days toward the end of filming, where the two had the opportunity to meet in real life at last. Bardem, however, didn’t have scenes scheduled at that time, and so only met Lucie face to face, for the first time, over Zoom. Here, he sits down with THR to discuss her reaction to seeing her parents’ story told on the big screen, his reverence for the opportunity to play such an iconic man and not holding back from telling a “warts-and-all” portrait of these two collaborators and lovers.

Courtesy of subject

You both came onto this project at quite different times in the process. When and where did the two of you first have the chance to talk, and what did those early conversations look like?

JAVIER BARDEM I didn’t want to disturb her, or ask her for anything, because I feel like it is sacred. The fact that I was going to play her father is a sacred thing. I can’t imagine. So in a way I felt very shy, very intimidated to reach out to her. And at the same time, I was trying to do my homework, trying to put the pieces together, reading the autobiography.

There was a moment where I felt, “I wish I could talk to her.” But it took me a long time to contact her, because I felt very shy, as I am now. Then I reached [out to] her and it happened so naturally. She’s an amazing woman. She’s an artist; she’s so respectful of our process; she knows exactly what we’re doing. And then from there, we had some conversations, and she shared with me some private recordings of Desi with some colleagues of his that were very helpful. But most of all, to feel your support, Lucie, it’s a blessing. Because I don’t know how I would react if somebody called me and said, “Listen, I’m sorry, but I’m playing your father.” She has been so collaborative, so thank you.

LUCIE ARNAZ That’s very generous. I mean, it was a long process. We were working on the idea of this film six years ago, almost seven now. And the very first name that was brought up to play my father was Javier Bardem. I remember going, “Oh my God” — that kicked it up a whole notch.

But I have to be completely honest, and I’ve told Javier this — because in my mind, I was still thinking, “Oh, we’ll find somebody that really physically looks like my father’s body type and face and he’ll be Cuban” — my first reaction was, “Oh, he’s too big, he’s too … magnificent.” My father was slimmer, he was a wisp of a thing compared to Javier, and then I said: “Their profiles are different. Geez, I don’t know.”

Well, lots of time went by. They looked at some other people, and because of people’s schedules, we didn’t have Desi, and it’s not an easy role to cast. My dad was so complicated and incredibly multifaceted. His personality and his talents, to pull that off, you have to have a certain amount of maturity, a certain gravitas, if you will. [He had] been through revolutions and had to support himself from absolutely nothing, trust his instincts, use his humor, figure out the language, be a good guy, get along with Americans.

When push came to shove, and we knew we had Aaron [Sorkin] and we knew it was a two-hour feature, they came back and they said, “Javier really would love to do this.” And I said, “Oh my God, well, I just don’t know.” I had seen everything that you had done, Javier, movie-wise. I’m a huge fan, huge. But I just didn’t know for my dad. And then they sent me some video of you being interviewed, just talk shows and stuff. And I went, “That’s my dad. Wow, oh my God, that’s my dad.” Because you have this charm, this effusiveness, this joy in you — and that’s what he had at his core. He loved living, he loved the world. He loved the ocean and fishing and music and sex and cooking. You felt that joy in him, which is why it’s such a crazy and complicated character to see his behavior sometimes [which] didn’t suit what you think would be an easygoing, lovable, wonderful guy. He had problems that stemmed from early childhood. We didn’t get into a whole lot of that in this movie. There’s one, maybe a couple of speeches where you really lambaste people and say, “You have no idea what I went through, you have no idea how terrifying it is to be thrown out of your country, chased out of your country.” These things were traumatic for my father, and it was PTSD.

But I literally watched you and I said, “You have the authority to be him.” I knew you were going to do the work that you always do. Because that’s the kind of actor you are. Then I just let the chips fall where they may and watched it happen. I wish we had had more time together. I wish they had contacted me sooner. I could have shared more things. You asked when did we actually meet? I think we’re meeting right now. Wow. We haven’t hugged yet.

Courtesy of GLEN WILSON /AMAZON

What was your reaction to Javier in the role, and the final film as a whole, as an audience member?

ARNAZ When I saw who he created, it didn’t matter. Body type didn’t matter. It didn’t matter that he was born Spanish and not Cuban. None of it mattered to me. I saw the man, the humor, the charm, the sex appeal, the intuitiveness, his ability to arbitrate, which was an amazing quality. He always used to say, “There must be a way.” He lived by that. I was in tears at the end of the film, and the only word I could come out with, I just kept saying, “I’m so grateful.” So very grateful that it is what it is, that it came out the way it came out.

I want to ask what, for you, was the toughest thing to take on? What was the thing that felt most not like you?

BARDEM Based on what I’ve read and what I saw, I felt that the music was in his body. You can tell by the way he was moving, he was comfortable and proud of his body in a way that exudes personality and charm and security and sex appeal, a sexual energy. That’s far from — well, I guess I have some of that. But I can’t stay in that energy for longer than five minutes and hold it. And since the goal wasn’t the resemblance, but the essence of who he was, I focused on that and said, “How do I maintain that energy where he includes everyone?” He wants everyone to be part of the journey.

So that energy of the music in him, the charm, the security, combined with the music. Before I would do any take in the movie, I would dance. Even if I was doing the scene at the end with Nicole, when she goes with the handkerchief [and discovers his infidelity] … that is not a singing scene. I was dancing. I was moving the body because I felt that I am more stuck in my own way, and he wasn’t. And that was the challenge but also the gift that the beautiful Desi gave me for those days.

ARNAZ In Cuba, you got that everywhere. There’s this rhythm. There’s congas. You can’t hear this music without jiggling and moving. I grew up just playing the tables and cups. Everybody played drums at my house. Music was a huge part of our life. He sang all the time; he sang in the kitchen; he sang while he drove, which was dangerous. You’re right, that is a core element in him.

They have had this incredible longevity of their notoriety. [They] really accomplished something, and we needed to look at them and find out what makes them tick. That’s what I wanted to do. Because they’re complicated people, and we, as children, Desi Jr. and I, could never really understand, with all they had going for them, why they ended up apart, because they’re our parents, we don’t want that to happen. But it was almost as if you couldn’t tie them down. For what [the film] is, it encapsulates an awful lot of important information. And he did do a great job sort of inventing this story that is not exactly accurate as far as historical things, but just the essence of how they related to one another is absolutely perfect.

Javier, can you speak more to that — capturing the essence of these people instead of doing imitations?

BARDEM Aaron always said, and I think you, Lucie, said to me as well: “This is not a photograph, it’s a painting.” It’s a reading of what these people meant and how much they meant to each other. You asked Nicole and I what was the thing that obsessed us the most: beyond anything, to really convey the love they felt for each other. Because even at the end, we have to understand that they love each other till they die. All due respect to their other relationships. But it was that kind of love. Am I wrong?

ARNAZ No, you’re absolutely right. It was a very unique thing. It’s like they landed on the moon together. They experienced something so incredible in their careers together, that even when they couldn’t figure out the relationship part well enough … they didn’t disappear. When he passed, it was only two years, and then she left, and I can’t help but think somebody like my father was there to bring her over.

BARDEM Every night, and I know Nicole did the same, when we were coming back from the shoot, I would look at the sky, and see all the stars, and pick one, the brightest one. And I would talk to Desi every night, for 30 to 40 minutes. I’d sit down with a glass of water — I don’t drink alcohol or smoke. And I’d just release the tension and tell him exactly how the day went and thank him for giving me the gift of allowing me to be him. Because I believe that if I’ve been chosen, he might have had something to do with that. I believe in those things.

ARNAZ Absolutely. I do, too.

BARDEM I was always asking for his blessing to inhabit him and to be a medium so he can go through me and express himself and help me to tell his story. The last day of shooting, when I had to say goodbye — for me it was heartbreaking. Nicole and I, and the rest of the cast, we approached it with the most respect we could have. It isn’t about playing good people, or bad people. No, it’s about really being loyal to what they represented, and not putting too much of ourselves into it. Hopefully, we are just an empty base where he or she can be. And to know your support, at the end, when you saw the movie and what you’ve said. That made me cry.

ARNAZ It made me cry, too. So we’re even. You did the work. That’s all I can say, as two phenomenal actors you kept the bar very, very high. You weren’t afraid to show warts and all. Nobody tried to be liked. And Aaron wrote warts — there’s warts, and you can play them. That’s what makes them real. I love playing characters that have warts, because the fun part is finding out why, where’s that come from? Otherwise, it’s boring, there’s no depth to anything. But you did show how well they work together, and the incredible respect that he had for her, that she had for him no matter what. I mean, even when she was worried and didn’t understand if he was being faithful to her or whatever, she would jump in front of a train to say, “Listen to him. He’s the reason we’re here.”

Your film came out just a few months before a new documentary about your parents, Amy Poehler’s Lucy and Desi.

ARNAZ We never got a chance to really tell the in depth story of, “Why are they the way they are?” And oddly enough, Aaron said, “I don’t want to do a biopic,” even though that’s what he was hired to write. He found the conflict that he wanted to write. Now there’s this marvelous documentary that wasn’t even on the horizon when I was talking to Todd [Black, the producer].

BARDEM It looks amazing.

ARNAZ It came out of the blue from Ron Howard’s company and White Horse Pictures. They wanted permission to do an in-depth biopic, cradle-to-grave story about Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. I thought, “I can’t, because I’m involved in this Amazon movie, and I have it in my contract. I can’t get involved in any other biographical stories right now.” But I mentioned it to the Amazon people at the time. And they said, “Maybe we could do a waiver for that, because they’re two separate things.”

BARDEM I can’t wait to see that documentary. I’ve read the most amazing reviews about it.

ARNAZ She did a great job. It’s a little different from mine. She asked some great questions. And it’s 20-some years later. Now I’m looking back with my own thoughts, having done the documentary [Lucy and Desi: A Home Movie] and all that I learned from that. But then having all this time in my life pass, I’ve learned a lot more. I’m older now. I’ve raised children and grandchildren.

BARDEM I saw your documentary like 100 times. It’s so valuable. And it’s so beautiful and emotional … because there’s lots of love there and also lots of pain.

ARNAZ It was a hard thing to do. Because I didn’t want it to be a tribute. I didn’t want it to be a Mommy Dearest trash piece. I wanted to walk a fine line down the middle, and really try to understand what happened to my folks, and really ask the questions and really hear the answers and then put the story into a film. I had no agenda when I started. I guess I would have been happy as a journalist in another life, maybe, because I like to get to the bottom of things.

Javier, what was your favorite moment to film?

BARDEM There are many, but let me tell you for the fun of it, for how far it is from what I do: Playing at Ciro’s was crazy. We shot that on the Queen Mary boat. They dressed the whole ship like Ciro’s. It was crazy to get in there and see all these 200 extras dressed like in the ’50s. And then to hear the “Babalu” [song], even if it was my own version of “Babalu,” it still resonates so big there. And all the orchestra playing it. It felt like [we’d] traveled back in time. And for a moment I felt it. I felt like, “Yes, that must be the feeling of being that person in that moment.” I was playing the congas and I started to bleed. The thing I was banging so hard that I didn’t even feel the pain. And they said, “Cut, cut, cut, are you OK?” “Yes, I’m OK. What happened?” “Look at the conga!” It was one of those days where the animal took over. And that, for me, was a great experience personally.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

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