‘The Bear’ Star Ebon Moss-Bachrach on Richie’s Redemption Arc and Learning Taylor Swift’s ‘Love Story’
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SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers for Season 2 of “The Bear,” now streaming on Hulu.
As introduced in Season 1 of “The Bear,” the lovable, loud-mouthed Cousin Richie is abrasive and stubborn. When Carmy (Jeremy Allen White) takes over his brother’s Italian beef shop and begins enacting Michelin-star leadership over its chaotic kitchen, Richie is the most resistant to change. He makes a fuss about Carmy switching mayonnaise brands. He picks childish, violent fights with his fellow chefs. He deals cocaine out of the back of the restaurant.
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While Ebon Moss-Bachrach has always played the problem child of the FX kitchen drama with heart, it wasn’t until Season 2 that Richie became the heart of “The Bear.” As he fears becoming a dying breed amid Carmy’s transformation of the sandwich shop into a fine dining experience, Richie earns a worthy redemption arc and finds his purpose.
In what is the most euphoric moment in the series, Richie speeds through Chicago alleys, dodging traffic and singing along to Taylor Swift’s “Love Story,” after a triumphant week staging at an upscale restaurant.
Moss-Bachrach spoke with Variety about Richie’s growth over the course of Season 2, getting emotional reading the script for Episode 7 and working with incredible guest stars including Jamie Lee Curtis and Olivia Colman. He also broke down that epic needle drop, learning the lyrics to “Love Story” and whether he considers himself a Swiftie.
What was your reaction when you read the script for Episode 7, which is centered on Richie staging at a Michelin-star restaurant?
I was very happy when I read it. The writers are great — we get the whole season before we even start shooting, which is rare. As an actor, it’s an incredible luxury, because you get to think about how you want to sculpt and carve your [character] over the course of the season. Richie’s arc this season was really strong, obviously very playable — a search for meaning and purpose. It was a full tank of gas to drive with through the season. And so when I read 7, and I got to the moment where Chef Terry [Olivia Colman] tells Richie, “Carmy believes in you. He said you’re good with people,” I was very emotional. It was this kind of validation that he’d been looking for. He needs so little, so that one sentence is everything for him. I found it really profound and moving.
His people skills really shine when he delivers an elevated deep-dish pizza to the diners.
His value translates to this new iteration. There’s a place for him here. That’s a very astute piece of writing, for him to be able to bring this Pequod’s Pizza out and do what he’s great at doing within this rarified, elevated experience. It’s such a victory for him. He loses all the time, and to get that win is a big deal.
This season is full of motivational phrases and mantras — Sydney (Ayo Edebiri) is reading the Coach K book, the words “purpose” and “perseverance” come up a lot, and “Every Second Counts” is a motif. Do you have similar guiding principles when it comes to acting?
I don’t think so. I have mantras in my own life: “It’s going to be OK.” “Just keep moving forward.” Those are my personal things that I say to myself on a daily basis. In terms of acting, I try to relax and negotiate this tightrope walk of nerves. You need to be relaxed to be able to make art and surprise yourself, so I try to balance those two very different states.
It was such a revelation that “Every Second Counts” was passed down from Chef Terry’s father to her, and then to Carmy and Will Poulter’s character, Luca. It’s in that moment that Richie starts to comprehend the deep community of chefs that Carmy is a part of.
A lot crystallizes in the last few minutes of that episode. So much dawns on Richie — these bigger issues become more terrestrial. At the beginning of the season, Richie knows he needs to change and stay there for his own survival. But he doesn’t know exactly how he has to change. It’s a really confusing place to be, and that episode gives him place and purpose in a really practical way.
When Richie is wrapping up his week staging at the restaurant — after this amazing experience filled with personal growth — he calls Carmy and accuses him of sending him there to get rid of him. How do you interpret that scene?
It’s a really insightful scene about human nature. It shows that no matter how much you grow, it’s so easy to slip back. It’s so easy to fall back into old patterns. And just a little bit of insecurity can sabotage so much. That was a laser beam of writing, to see that he has tasted what life can be like, he’s had this revelation, and all the past is forgotten. Yet, doubt — and self-doubt — is such a corruptive and human force. Growth is fragile. Everything is fragile. That’s what that phone call was.
Richie has always been resistant to change, especially when it comes to transforming the Beef — a modest, neighborhood sandwich spot — into an upscale dining establishment. How does that inner conflict play out when he’s watching the chef take a deep-dish pizza and deconstruct it into a high-concept dish?
I think that scene really bridges those two ideas. There still is value to Pequod’s Pizza, and Chicago traditions. Richie finds a lifeline. That stuff is not going to be erased in the way he was so scared of. It can be incorporated. And indeed, in the new restaurant the Bear, there’s still a way for the Italian beef sandwiches to be served. It’s not really featured on the show, but in the back of the kitchen is a to-go window, and that’s Ebraheim’s [Edwin Lee Gibson] station.
Something a lot of people are talking about is the Taylor Swift needle drop. What was it like shouting along to “Love Story”? And are you a Swiftie?
I’m not a Taylor Swift fan. I’m not, like, an anti-Taylor Swift person, I just never really got into her. I was nervous about that because I had to learn the lyrics — I wasn’t familiar with the song. We had also been shooting something the night before, and my voice was completely torched. So it’s a very hoarse rendition. I would have liked to have tried to sing it beautifully, and you got a pretty rough version. The essence of that scene is victory and rapture and feeling good about yourself. It’s so rare when you get to inhabit a space like that. Lightness and celebration is so beautiful to watch. When you see somebody fully living out a moment of triumph — I love those kinds of scenes.
It’s hard to watch Richie’s last scene this season, which is him yelling at Carmy, who is locked in the walk-in cooler: “I hope you fucking freeze to death.”
Oh God, I haven’t seen the last episode yet. We did so many takes — I wasn’t sure how it was going to come together.
Yeah. It’s kind of brutal!
When we were shooting that scene, near the end it was a lot of Richie saying, “I love you. I love you. I fucking love you. I love you.” And Carmy was saying, “What the fuck did you do? You’re a piece of shit! You don’t have anything.” At a certain point, Richie walks away. In that moment, I was desperately trying to send him love and wake him up shake him. “I hope you fucking freeze to death”… Wow, that’s strong.
I’ve heard you talk about how it’s hard to watch your own work because of the distance between your experience filming and how it turns out. What specifically creates that dissonance for you?
It’s just post-production. There’s music and editing, and the performance can be manipulated and modulated. It’s less with “The Bear” than almost any other thing I’ve done. But oftentimes when I watch something, it’s so different from what I experienced on the day that it makes me feel powerless and self-conscious. And it’s not very helpful for me going forward. It makes me cynical, and that’s not a good place for someone to create from.
If I didn’t love “The Bear” so much I wouldn’t watch it, but because I care so deeply about these people and because I have so much trust in Joanna Calo and Christopher Storer and our team, I feel a little safer watching it.
What was it like to work with all of the guest stars in Season 2? Not only do you share this intimate moment with Olivia Colman, but in Episode 6 you’re at Christmas dinner with Jamie Lee Curtis, Bob Odenkirk, John Mulaney, Sarah Paulson…
That was incredible. I was a little concerned about having these well-known actors in the show, because I didn’t want it to distract from the story that we’re telling. So much of the virtue of “The Bear’s” first season was it was these relatively unknown actors — or known actors, but nobody super famous. And you can really get sucked into the world. The last thing I wanted was for people to be taken out of the story because, “Oh my God, it’s Sarah Paulson! Bob Odenkirk! Jamie Lee Curtis!” But they all did such good work and were so committed.
There were no egos there at all. Bob Odenkirk was there for a second, but then it was Lee. And Jamie Lee was so prepared, and she had such an active job to do that week. It’s so hard to show up as a guest on somebody else’s set and own it like Jamie Lee did. It’s really remarkable. I can’t overstate how impressed I was with the work and preparation she did. Even Sarah Paulson — who is one of our greatest actors — I think there’s more in the episode than what was on the page, but for her to put all ego aside and show up to be a part of this insane ensemble. It was so exciting and encouraging, and validating for us to have all these people want to party with us.
How did you shoot the scene where all the mold and junk falls on your head?
That’s just our FX team, which is only a couple of people. They cooked up some sort of clean, safe dirt. When I read it originally, I thought it would be funny to have a bunch of live rats rain on me and then scurry away. I thought that would be really scandalous and incredible. And they told me that they ran it up the pole at Disney, and that Disney said they didn’t want to work with live animals. But I also wonder if maybe they didn’t do that, and they just told me they did and didn’t like my idea. Or maybe they did, but rats and Disney — with Mickey Mouse — is not something they’re interested in entertaining.
This is a high-level conspiracy theory.
I’d say it’s a low- to mid-level conspiracy theory.
Is “The Bear” what most people recognize you from when you go out in public?
Absolutely. Usually my experience has been that whatever show I’m currently on at the time is what people respond to. But it’s Richie and then probably Desi from “Girls” and David Lieberman from “The Punisher.” That’s what I get 90% of the time.
Richie and Desi are both very fragile adult men. What is the key to playing these characters who are total manchildren at times, but still making them relatable and likable?
I’m not ever concerned with whether they’re likable. I also loathe judging my characters. With someone like Desi in “Girls,” who is such a strongly written character, I see the joke. But I never want to take that easy path. Because there’s much more of a payoff for the story — and then for the joke, ultimately — if the person playing the character is really in their corner and not judging them. Trying to pursue that character’s happy ending and achieve the best life for them as possible. All the failures and shortcomings, those will happen. But you don’t need to lean into that stuff. The actions and events will take care of that, and you don’t need to understand the faults so much. The more you strive and get what they want, everything else will take care of itself.
Did you do any real-life kitchen training for “The Bear”?
No, I didn’t do any kitchen training. But I spent a little bit of time, for the second season, going to some pretty nice restaurants and observing the kitchen, just to see what it’s like. For example, the silence of a Michelin kitchen. That’s not something I’d necessarily know from being in the dining room.
Has being on the show changed the way you dine at restaurants?
I’d like to think that I’ve always been a conscientious diner, and an appreciative person. When I see somebody being a dick to a waiter, my skin crawls. So I didn’t have this come to Jesus moment, like “I’m going to be a respectful guest from now on,” because I’d like to think I always was. But my respect for people in hospitality and the restaurant industry has definitely grown because it’s such a hard job. The work these people have to do is really impressive and thankless, and I tip my hat to them.
As an actor, do you have a preference in terms of whether the show comes out all at once or releases weekly?
When I heard everything was coming out all at once for the first season, I thought it would have been nice to do it week by week in terms of generating talk and anticipation. But the people who are much smarter than me made a decision to release it all at once, and I think it was the smart thing to do. I’m not really sure why, but with this show in particular it feels like we should let people decide for themselves how they want to ingest, inhale or savor it.
Has there been discussion about where Richie might go in a third season? Do you get insight from Chris and Joanna on that?
I do. I have a zoomed-out understanding of what the trajectory of the whole show is, and the trajectory of Richie. They’re not coy about any of that stuff. It’s not like [“Mad Men” creator] Matthew Weiner, bread-crumming it out for the cast. They’re really open with us and inclusive.
Have they told you when the show might end, in terms of how many seasons?
Yeah, they have. But I’m not going to discuss that.
Is there anything else you do want to discuss?
This is a really exciting moment for me, to see the thing we worked so hard on get an initial burst of enthusiasm. I know how fleeting these things can be, and it’s just a really sweet ride that I’m enjoying.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
More of Variety‘s coverage of “The Bear”: For an interview with Jeremy Allen White, click here. For an interview with Jon Bernthal, click here. For interview with Will Poulter, click here. For an interview with Matty Matheson, click here. For Variety’s review of “Forks,” click here. For Variety’s S2 review, click here. For an interview with culinary producer Courtney Storer, click here. For an interview with Episode 4 star Lionel Boyce and director Ramy Youssef, click here. For more on the S2 soundtrack, click here. For S2 cameo breakdown, click here. For an interview with Mr. Beef owner Chris Zucchero, click here.
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