Anna Sawai breaks down this week's gutting Shōgun episode

If there was ever any doubt that Shōgun’s Mariko-sama was a force to be reckoned with, the penultimate episode squashes it. The enthralling installment centers on Anna Sawai’s loyal, impassioned character making the ultimate sacrifice. “Crimson Sky” takes us through Mariko’s emotional endeavors as she fights for Lord Toranaga (Hiroyuki Sanada), reunites with Lady Ochiba (Fumi Nikaido), has a heart-to-heart with her son, and gives into her feelings for John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) again. It paints a fuller picture of her life, which feels essential considering that life is about to end.

As episode nine closes, Mariko—who was saved from committing seppuku at the last minute earlier that day—gives up her life anyway so that Blackthorne can save the rest of Ishido’s (Takehiro Hira) hostages. The build-up to the moment is spectacularly thrilling. “Crimson Sky” is easily Shōgun’s finest hour yet, and it all hinges on Sawai’s capable, Emmy-worthy shoulders. The A.V. Club spoke to the actor about preparing for Mariko’s final act, its emotional toll, and why she’s still processing her time on Shōgun.

The A.V. Club: Episode nine is such a pivotal and heartbreaking hour for Mariko. How do you view her journey in it?

Anna Sawai: More than being heartbroken, I felt very empowered because of Mariko’s story. I was approaching it from a very objective point of view where she finds the power in that last bit of episode eight when Toranaga asks her if she’s ready. She finds a resolution, and this is what she’s wanted, to be able to take action. So I was feeling very positive about it. But when I did watch episode nine, I was crying because, you know, seeing her whole journey from a third person’s point of view or as an audience member changed the experience for me. But yeah, I felt it was so well-deserved because, for eight episodes, we see her kind of be behind the men even though she holds power a lot of the time; we still see her very closed and quiet. And then she finally gets permission to be vocal about it in front of Ishido or talk to Lady Ochiba about her childhood. So episode nine was very meaningful to me.

AVC: What was it like to explore different facets of Mariko in this episode?

AS: It was amazing. I’m realizing what I was going through in hindsight, but in that moment, I don’t think I was able to analyze what it was. I remember by mid-season, maybe around episodes five to seven, I was feeling pretty unsure of myself. I think it was reflecting what Mariko was feeling. In episode four, we see her open up to Blackthorne because she thinks that her husband is dead, and Buntaro is the one tying her down. But then in episode five, he comes back. In episode seven, she’s a little lost; she wants to take her own life. She doesn’t understand why she’s doing this and she thinks that her Lord is about to give up. And I was feeling what she was going through. So by the time episode nine rolled around, I felt so much clearer, and I think it’s because Mariko herself knew what she needed to do. I, as an actor, also had a lot of clarity.

AVC: Was there ever a moment where you guys wondered about deviating from James Clavell’s novel and letting Mariko live?

AS: That is mainly the writers’ and showrunner’s job to decide, so I wasn’t part of any conversations of like, “Actually, let’s change the story or let her live” or anything like that. It made sense to me that in a way she does fulfill her journey, and things in the finale would come out very differently otherwise. Her decision makes such a big impact that everything changes in episode 10 for the people who are taken hostage and the things that people stand up for. It’s because of the decision Mariko makes. So I think it was supposed to end like this. I haven’t talked to anyone who was like, “No, we should have changed it.” It was so beautifully written in James Clavell’s novel so it was very natural that we followed it.

AVC: We have to talk about that major fight sequence of Mariko versus the guards. What was the physical training for it? In my interview with stunt choreographer Lauro Chartrand-DelValle, he couldn’t stop praising your commitment. Was it also challenging emotionally considering we see Mariko breaking down by the end?

AS: Physically, we did a lot of training before that day and we’ve already seenMariko wielding the naginata before. I didn’t have to learn many new tricks. It was more about learning the stunt choreography and making sure that we were safe or that no one was going to get hurt because it was a lot of action. Mentally, we see her breaking down, but it’s interesting because I think she knows she’s not going to be able to pass through the guards. The whole plan is that if they’re not going to let her go, she’s going to prove to them that she is being taken hostage, and she is ready to commit seppuku if needed.

So I think it’s more the embarrassment of not being able to answer to her Lord. That’s what puts a dagger into her ego. It’s very shameful as a samurai. So that’s where the emotional aspect comes through. I remember just trying to be very strong-willed. One of the stuntmen told me, “You really have to come at me,” because I was still playing it safe. That drove me even further once he gave me that comment. I was then looking at him like, “You better watch out.” [Laughs] In many ways, both physically and mentally, I was gearing up for that scene throughout and I think it came through.

AVC: A key detail of your performance as Mariko throughout is emoting and expressing feelings even when she isn’t allowed to, especially with Blackthorne. It comes to a head in episode nine again. What was it like to develop that aspect?

AS: I don’t know how much of that was intentional. I was following the care and affection they do share, even if she’s not allowed to show it. It’s there. For so many of the episodes, she’s pushing him away because they’re both in danger if anyone finds out. And a lot of people do know. Mariko and the Anjin are forced into a situation where they have to spend time together. So she’s very careful of how she proceeds. Also when she did get together with Blackthorne at the end of episode four, it was because she thought her husband was gone. She wouldn’t have done it if he were still there. Things quickly change in episode five so she has to build that wall in between them.

Cut to episode nine, after he walks up to her and decides to second her even though he is a Protestant and it is against his religion to behead anyone. I think you can see that’s when she realizes like, “Wow, he really does care for [me].” And that allows her to open up to him later. So whatever you’re seeing, it organically happened for the character. I wasn’t thinking specifically, “Oh I should emote this,” but it was just more happening within myself.

AVC: There are two significant conversations in episode nine: one Mariko has with her old friend, Lady Ochiba, and one with her teenage son, Toda Ryûji [Yuua Yamanaka]. Why do you think it was crucial to see her find closure with them?

AS: The connection that Mariko and Ochiba have in Shōgun is unique and special because we don’t see a lot of them together. This is the first time that they’re grown-ups facing each other. And you see that connection is still there even if society has pulled them apart. It wasn’t either one hating the other. It’s so unfortunate how everything turned out but they still care about each other. Ochiba is trying to save Mariko because it’s her friend, and she understands what the world has made her into, but she also knows the little girl she once was and cares for her. The little exchange they have, it’s not verbal, but you can see from their eyes that they share a special connection.

I think it was very important also to see Mariko with her son because we don’t see her spend time with him or even hear her talking about what she thinks of leaving her child or being a mom. But she does believe that there’s a greater purpose, so the most important thing for her is serving her Lord because she knows it’s going to change the course of everyone’s lives. I do want to note that in the seppuku scene, I wasn’t expecting Mariko’s son to be standing in the corner of the room. That changed me emotionally because it was a realization that he was going to be put into the same situation as her when she had to see her family die. Still, it’s essential that we got to see her moments with him.

AVC: Mariko’s act of sacrifice at the end is in the book and the previous adaptation. But for your version of her, what did you want to bring to it?

AS: I haven’t seen the previous adaptation because I was instructed not to, so I can’t make a comparison there. For me, I knew Mariko gets only a brief moment to decide what to do. She knows if she’s captured, she won’t be able to do her duty. It’s kind of a no-brainer that this is what she has to do. She’s going to make a statement. She’s going to protest. Her whole past with her father also plays a huge part in this. I can see it from the choice of calling herself Akechi Mariko, not Toda Mariko, which is Buntaro’s last name. Yes, she’s doing this for Toranaga and her father, but it’s at this moment that I wanted to show she’s also doing it for herself. I think that’s so impactful.

AVC: What was it like to say goodbye to Mariko-sama and the show?

AS: I don’t know if I had enough time to process it because I went straight into my next project the day after I finished Shōgun. Maybe that was kind of good because I didn’t have to go through the mourning of the character. I hear so often that it takes quite a while to get out of a character’s shell sometimes. But I find that Mariko’s still very much a part of myself. Whenever I talk about her, I get emotional. It feels like you’re sending your kid away or something. Even now, the finale is almost here, and I still feel sad. It’s been such a long journey and now it’s ending, and she’ll be gone gone. I don’t know. Maybe I’m still processing, but it means it was meaningful to me that I will always carry Shōgun as a part of me.

AVC: Before we wrap up, Monarch: Legacy Of Monsters just got renewed, and Pachinko is slated to return in 2024. What can you share about the second seasons of these Apple TV+ dramas?

AS: I haven’t heard anything about Monarch. I’m literally asking my manager and the show’s team to tell me what the arc is but I think they’re still planning it or they’re very secretive. All I know is that we’ll be reunited. [Season one] was such a fun shoot, so I’m much looking forward to it. As for Pachinko season two, we finished shooting it already. I haven’t seen it yet. In the first season, we only see my character, Naomi, in the office because she’s part of Solomon’s story. Season two gives her more screen time, so you’ll get to see her outside of the office and know her personal life a little bit.