Ed Sheeran Says Being an Underdog Helped Him and BFF Taylor Swift

If Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift had been the cool kids in school, they might have gone on to live perfectly normal lives — ones that exactly no one would read about, Sheeran acknowledges.

“There’s an underdog element to it,” Sheeran, 25, says in the new issue of GQ‘s British edition. “Taylor [Swift] was never the popular kid in school. I was never the popular kid in school. Then you get to the point when you become the most popular kid in school — and we both take it a bit too far. She wants to be the biggest female artist in the world, and I want to be the biggest male artist in the world. It also comes from always being told that you can’t do something and being like, ‘F*** you. I can.’”

Swift, 27, explained from the stage in L.A. during a 2009 concert that the lack of a social life helped her in other ways too.

“It doesn’t matter if you don’t have friends in junior high. Being an outsider gave me time to think,” she said. “But there was a time when my greatest fear was not fitting in at school; I never thought I would be here with a sold-out Staples Center.”

Sheeran’s cousin, Jethro Sheeran, described Ed’s childhood to the U.K.’s The Sun in February 2015.

“At school he wouldn’t go out as he was bullied for having ginger hair and glasses,” Jethro said. “It was sad for us to see. But while I was out with my mates, he was working on his craft, becoming the incredible songwriter he is today.”

Related: Taylor Swift’s Beverly Hills Home Is Almost a Historical Landmark

If not for that experience, he also might not be besties with Swift, whom he bonded with in 2013 while opening for her on tour. Since then, the two have been close friends, collaborating on music, kicking back at her awesome Fourth of July bashes, and swapping compliments.

Swift — as successful as ever — worked with someone else, Zayn, for her latest project. They dropped a video for the song, “I Don’t Want to Live Forever,” from the Fifty Shades Darker soundtrack, on Thursday.

Related: Watch Taylor Swift and Zayn’s Smouldering Video for ‘Fifty Shades Darker’ Song

No longer an underdog, Sheeran has his sights set on one very specific goal.

“Adele is the one person who’s sold more records than me in the past 10 years,” he tells British GQ. “She’s the only person I need to sell more records than. That’s a big f***ing feat because her last album sold 20 million. But if I don’t set her as the benchmark then I’m selling myself short.”

He’s certainly not the underdog anymore.